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paulee

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Reply with quote  #1 
Pretty much a do-or-die game after losing in such uninspired fashion to Costa Rica last week.
If we fail to qualify for this WC, what are the repercussions?
Arena will obviously be fired, but then what?
Years ago, Anson Dorrance made the suggestion that any time a coach got fired, the administrator that hired them should be fired as well.
Does the hierarchy at US soccer bear some responsibility as well?

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craigl

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Reply with quote  #2 
Costa Rica was a better coached team that defended as a unit.  The US could not hold the ball when pressured.   Our games is not very good so it is not good to watch.  I think the score was a fair result with loss 2-0 at home.   The stadium and ref were like a home game for Costa Rica playing in the US.  Obviously, not much base fan support.

I did not see Honduras game.  It really was not on TV for american fans so that says something about US mens program.  We did come back to tie the game.  Not seeing the game, I can not offer feed back about the team.

I think US admin (gulati?) should already be gone.   I was once crazy in love with US men's game, but Klinsmann killed it.   Basically US soccer does not care so why should we as fans.  Then our coach and players like Bradley add their liberal, political crap to make excuses for their failure to perform.  It is sad that these are the players we have to represent our country.   Maybe we fire the men's coach and have the women's coach take over.  She might have more balls.  Let her run the admin role as well.  At least it would cut out some $.

Still, Bruce has gotten better results.  I would not throw him under the bus over 1-2 games.  I still think we got a team too full of metrosexuals to ever compete for a World Cup.   We need players that live and breath the game and the jersey and then maybe fans can get excited.

Hey lets schedule another gay pride game with rainbow jerseys.... Maybe that will inspire these guys and their coach.

we will likely get into World Cup because of money.  They want the TV dollars from a big country to be in the game.    We did miss last 2 olympics, but I think Fifa like money.

US is bidding to host it again to.

[definition metrosexual: 
  1. a young, urban, heterosexual male with liberal political views, an interest in fashion, and a refined sense of taste.]
craigl

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Reply with quote  #3 
Now that we are out.

The emperor needs to go:  Fire Gulati!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunil_Gulati


https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/sep/22/sunil-gulati-us-soccer-eric-wynalda

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/sports/soccer/sunil-gulati-us-soccer-jurgen-klinsmann.html

craigl

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Reply with quote  #4 
Oddly it was not easy to see the results from qualifying.  I had to dig into us soccer site.   I had to filter to get MNT games and then I had to figure out which games are from qualifying.   Sorry if I have any mistakes.  Below is what I calculated.   The us soccer site was really good back in 2002 before Mr G.

It is clear to me that the mistakes happen the first 2 games with Klinsmann.  He failed to qualify for both Olympics.   Any other coach would have been fired after the poor Gold Cup result as Bradley had been previously.  So, I think it is clear that Mr G.  Needs to go.

 

                   W   D   L     Score  Given   Net     HOME     AWAY

Arena .          3   3   2      16      7       +9      4        4

 

Klinsmann      0   0   2      1       6        -5       1        1

  

T & T      1-2L   AWAY

 

Panama     4-0W   HOME

 

Honduras   1-1D   AWAY

 

Costa Rica 0-2L   HOME

 

 

Mexico     1-1D   AWAY

 

T&T        2-0W   HOME

 

Panama     1-1D   AWAY

 

Honduras   6-0W   HOME

 

Costa Rica 0-4L   AWAY 

 

Mexico     1-2L   HOME

mbiyenm

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Reply with quote  #5 
Firing people (especially coaches) is easy but might not solve the problem(s).   What are the lessons learned and what's the plan for the future?
craigl

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Reply with quote  #6 
Hey, I do not call for people to be fired very often.  Only when it needs to happen.  The problem is when it needs to happen and it does not happen.

I didn't say to fire any coaches, but I think they need fresh ideas so new coach will happen.   Mr G. needs to go.  He must not pick the next coach.  He should have been gone when Klinnsman did not get fired after olympics.   They need to find someone good, but Mr G will not be able to move us forward.  He is mediocre.  We need exceptional.

Dictionary: mediocre

of only moderate quality; not very good.
"a mediocre actor"
synonyms:ordinaryaveragemiddlingmiddle-of-the-roaduninspiredundistinguishedindifferentunexceptionalunexcitingunremarkablerun-of-the-millpedestrianprosaiclacklusterforgettableamateuramateurish
informalOKso-so, ‘comme ci, comme ça’, plain-vanilla, fair-to-middling, no great shakes, not up to much, bush-league
"a mediocre performance"
craigl

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Reply with quote  #7 
American Outlaws believe Mr G. needs to go.

https://www.theamericanoutlaws.com/articles/statement-from-ao-following-world-cup-qualifying-elimination

Adam32m

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigl
Oddly it was not easy to see the results from qualifying.  I had to dig into us soccer site.   I had to filter to get MNT games and then I had to figure out which games are from qualifying.   Sorry if I have any mistakes.  Below is what I calculated.   The us soccer site was really good back in 2002 before Mr G.

It is clear to me that the mistakes happen the first 2 games with Klinsmann.  He failed to qualify for both Olympics.   Any other coach would have been fired after the poor Gold Cup result as Bradley had been previously.  So, I think it is clear that Mr G.  Needs to go.

 



Try wikipedia. 

Klinsmann lost to the top 2 teams in the group, that's not a big deal. Arena lost to T&T and tied Panama & Honduras. That's a big deal. 

Klinsmann didn't coach the Olympics teams so you can't put those on him. 

craigl

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Reply with quote  #9 
Adam,

It is true that Klinsman's first 2 games were the top 2 teams of the group.  It is generally a plan to win at home and tie on the road.   The team played horrible.  The players did not even know what they were to do and had to ask to change the formation during the game if I remember correctly.  The team was not prepared. The coach blamed the players.  He did not take responsiblity for the loss.

Klinsmann I believe was the Technical Director with the assigned duty to make sure we qualify for the olympics.  He picked the olympic team coaches.  He failed twice.  Like Gulati he failed to take responsibility for his failures.  So, I do put this on him.   You, he, and Gulati apparently agree that it was not anyone's responsibility for the US to reach the olympics.   Oh, wait there are some people who are saying it is the U8 youth coaches that are to blame because they are the biggest part of the us soccer pyramid.   

The first olympics I think it was a cheap goal given up by Sean Johnson at the end of the game and coaching mistakes that cost us the last game were we should have easily had it in hand.  I like Sean Johnson and he is a great athlete, but I do not think he has lived up to his potential and he gets call ups to USMNT.  I do not think he has earned them.  Sean did not lose this game, it was coaching mistakes.  I liked that college coach Caleb Porter (his teams played good), but he needed an assistant with international experience to help him.  He was in over his head.   We had the players.  Klinsmann let them down.

Now for my top 9 Gulati mistakes:

 

Flaw #1: US Soccer web site was once one of the best on the internet and it was re-done after Gulati took power and it is one of the worst on the internet for a mens soccer fan. 

Flaw #2:  hiring Klinsmann as both Technical Director & Coach

https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/13/16467678/taylor-twellman-q-a-american-soccer-us-world-cup-2018-failure

Technical Director - Most Important is this position that has a say in all matters.

"Germany has Oliver Bierhoff and Jogi Low. They didn't give Jogi Low both titles."

Flaw #3: not taking away Technical Director Role after US fails to make Olympics the first time.   The team had lots of talent, but the team had a good college coach who lacked professional and international coaching experience. 

Flaw #4:  extending Klinsmann before his first World Cup.  He already had to much power and it fed his ego even more and hurt the team further. 

Flaw #5:  Again not removing Technical Director role from Klinsmann (or even firing him) after second failure to make the olympics.  It was one of his 2 key objectives.

Flaw #6  Not firing Klinsmann after he fails to win gold cup.  This is why Bob Bradley was fired.   It was clear that the team was not moving forward.  Why do we lower our standards 4 years later?  Maybe because we gave Klinsmann too much $ see Flaw #4.

Flaw #7:  Allowing US games to be home matches for the teams that we play due to poor stadium selection.

Flaw #8:  Offering no solutions moving forward other than continued incompetence.  Repeatedly failing to take responsiblity for US Soccer failures.  Many fans believe that US Soccer under Gulati is a joke and a laughing stock.  I had a better development structure in 1970s than my kids had in the 2010s.  If that is not a failure of US Soccer then I do not know what is considered a failure?

Flaw #9: Not learning a single thing from 2 olympic and 1 world cup qualifying failures.   Ya, stay with Gulati and see if you can find anyone who even cares to watch the games next go around.  That is where he is taking US soccer.  No body even cares about US Soccer.  


craigl

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Reply with quote  #10 
From our fearless leader Mr G. Himself.   We are not going to be successful so get used to it.   Get used to mediocrity because that is what Gulati Soccer is all about.

Mr G. will do everything he can as long as it doesn't mean he is not longer in charge.   Mr Gulati if I were part of the problem with US Soccer.  I would step down so obviously Mr Gulati you and me have different views of "everything we can do".

Mr Gulati the big shock to the system is the performance of the team the last 2 years.   The Mediocrity that surrounds your leadership.   It is painful to watch.  More painful perhaps than missing a world cup.  You obviously do not get how bad you have been.  It is time for a change.


http://www.soccerwire.com/news/nt/international-men/u-s-soccer-president-sunil-gulati-addresses-state-of-usmnt/

On what he would say to fans who are upset and calling for change:

“What I say is all of us involved in the game are so passionate about the team, and we’re extraordinarily disappointed in every possible way. Starting with me and everyone on our staff and everyone else. So, what we say is that none of us are happy about not going. The one thing that this has reconfirmed obviously is that the passion and support we have for this team has grown tremendously. And we’re all very disappointed. We will do everything we can to get the team and the program back on track so we are successful. We’re not always going to be successful, that’s for sure, but this is a big shock to the system. We understand that, and we understand how much frustration, anger, disappointment and hurt there is from Tuesday night.”

paulee

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Reply with quote  #11 
MrSoccer used to talk about this.  Style of play.  What is the US style of play?  Do we know?  Do the players know?  Do the coaches know?
I was speaking to a coach who works in the National team set up, and he told me that we're the only nation that cares about winning at the youth level, the rest of the world is concerned with producing the players for the national sides that fit their style of play.

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-Andrew Carnegie
mbiyenm

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulee
What is the US style of play?  Do we know?  Do the players know?  Do the coaches know?

I thought it was supposed to be the same as the  Germans.  They setup the coaching school and methods.
craigl

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Reply with quote  #13 
Jermaine Jones:

Next Coach should be a good name and not an MLS coach.  Someone that will not always chose the easy way.  It is important that USSoccer does not make the next mistake.

US Team used to be guys who play in Europe to learn to fight for your position.  You need guys in Europe to make the national team better.   When the national team is better MLS gets better.

Why do we only have one 19 year old Pulisic.  We need more than 1 player.

When Bob Bradley was the coach most of the players were from Europe.  

Now Costa Rica does not respect you from MLS.   When they do not respect you it is tougher to play in qualifying.

MLS is not at the level of Champions League.  Maybe one day, but not today.

National Team needs players that you do not have to teach them.   They need to be ready to play.  The coach only has 12 days.  You have to teach MLS players the easy soccer thinking.  The players are not ready yet.  20 year old European player has a soccer brain that is way ahead.

Jordan Morris did not want to go.   Why you always go the easy way?

We need someone on top who is top

Watch the video here:
https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2017/10/14/16475778/watch-jermaine-jones-lays-into-usmnt-with-15-minute-rant
paulee

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http://www.espnfc.com/united-states/story/3232018/sam-allardyce-interested-in-taking-united-states-job-sources
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mbiyenm

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Reply with quote  #15 
He's as good as any at this point.  He'll want to prove something and might be affordable.

I was thinking that the strategy for the USMNT would be to use the best U20 and sprinkle
the complementary remains (age or experience) of the current USMNT with a view to 2022 qualifiers.  The current U20 coach might work out.  How are his tactics?
craigl

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Reply with quote  #16 
I remember when US soccer before it became Gulati Soccer.  We had some good players, but we thought the next generation would be even better.  Maybe one day.

 

Brian McBride

(highlights)

(2002 portugal goal 3)

(everton soundbyte)

(striker functional)

(on Klinsmann droping Donovan)

(on pulisic)

 

Paul Caligiri at Trinidad 1989

 

craigl

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Reply with quote  #17 


If so, will we have to bring back "Sam's Army"?

AFB for Gulati?
Mr Soccer as the new technical director?

I think Tab might not like Mr Soccer in that role.
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